November 10, 2021 Kyle Rittenhouse trial and testimony | CNN

Kyle Rittenhouse testifies in his own defense

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Kyle Rittenhouse breaks down on stand during trial
03:20 - Source: CNN

What we're covering

  • Kyle Rittenhouse, the armed Illinois teenager who killed two people and wounded another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer, is testifying in his own defense during his trial on homicide charges.
  • Rittenhouse, now 18, is charged with five felonies.
  • The case stems from Rittenhouse’s actions in the wake of protests related to the police shooting of Jacob Blake in August 2020, which left Blake paralyzed. It’s a case that will test the distinction between self-defense and vigilante killings.

Our live coverage has ended. You can read about what happened in court today below.

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Here's what happened today in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial

Kyle Rittenhouse, the armed Illinois teenager who killed two people and wounded another during protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, took the stand today to testify in his own defense in his trial on homicide charges.

Here’s what happened today in court:

  • Rittenhouse says he did nothing wrong: Rittenhouse defended his actions in Kenosha, in the wake of the protests related to the police shooting of Jacob Blake in August 2020, telling the court I didn’t do anything wrong. I defended myself.” The teenager also said he didn’t intend to kill anyone, but agreed he used “deadly force” that night.
  • Emotional testimony: Rittenhouse broke down on the stand while describing the night of the shooting prompting the judge to call a 10-minute recess
  • Rittenhouse says he was “ambushed”: Rittenhouse testified that Joseph Rosenbaum, who he shot and killed, had threatened to kill him and said he “came out from behind the car and ambushed me” before the shooting. He said later in his testimony that he believed Rosenbaum “tried to take my gun,” adding, “if he would have taken my gun he would’ve used it against me” and “killed me.”
  • No physical contact: Rittenhouse said that Rosenbaum had not physically touched him.
  • Motion for a mistrial: Defense attorney Corey Chirafisi said in court this afternoon that the defense is making a motion for a mistrial with prejudice claiming the prosecutor, ADA Thomas Binger, committed “what amounts to prosecutorial overreach.” The judge said he would take the motion under advisement.
  • Judge admonishes the prosecutor: Twice during cross-examination, Schroeder asked the jury to leave the courtroom and then sharply admonished Binger for his line of questioning.

Judge tells jurors to expect to finish by early next week 

At the end of court on Wednesday, Judge Bruce Schroeder told members of the Kyle Rittenhouse jury that he expected to finish the case by early next week. 

Before speaking with the jury, defense attorneys indicated to Schroeder they have three witnesses left to call in the case. 

Schroeder asked prosecutors if they expected to call any rebuttal witnesses after the defense rests their case.

Prosecutor Thomas Binger replied, “I don’t think it’s going to be extensive, but we do reserve the right to call…” 

“Understood,” Schroeder interjected. 

After polling the attorneys outside the presence of the jury, the judge also indicated there will be no court this upcoming weekend. 

Defense attorneys said that Dr. John Black is expected to be the first witness for the defense called Thursday morning. 

Court is in recess until 10 a.m. ET Thursday.

Trial adjourns until Thursday morning

The trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, the armed Illinois teenager who killed two people and wounded another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer, has adjourned for the day.

The trial will resume Thursday morning.

Kyle Rittenhouse testifies that Joseph Rosenbaum "would have taken my gun" and used it against him

Kyle Rittenhouse was asked during cross-examination about his encounter with Joseph Rosenbaum before he shot and killed him last summer.

The questioning grew tense and Rittenhouse grew emotional, telling prosecutor Thomas Binger, “I don’t know what Mr. Rosenbuaum was thinking when he tried to grab my gun”

While fighting back tears, Rittenhouse repeatedly stated that Rosenbaum “would’ve killed me” if he allowed him to take his gun from him.

Rittenhouse testified that he “never wanted to shoot, Mr. Rosenbaum” but “he was chasing me.”

The defendant insisted that the reason he pointed his gun at Rosenbaum was so he “would stop chasing me.”

Rittenhouse says Joseph Rosenbaum never physically touched him

As Kyle Rittenhouse’s testimony resumed after a lunch break, Kenosha County Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger asked about his encounter with Joseph Rosenbaum.

Rittenhouse testified earlier that Rosenbaum threatened him twice. 

This was the exchange:

Binger also asked Rittenhouse if Rosenbaum had any type of weapon other than the chain Rittenhouse believed he had and whether Rosenbaum charged at him or was physically aggressive toward him. 

Rittenhouse said he did not. 

Legal experts weigh in on Rittenhouse's testimony

Is Kyle Rittenhouse’s testimony on the stand so far helping or hurting his case? Legal experts weighed in on CNN during a break in the trial this afternoon. Here’s what they said.

CNN legal analyst and civil rights attorney Areva Martin

“It was a risky move by the defense team to put him on the stand… but I think in this case, given how the evidence has been presented by the prosecution, that it is working for the defense.”

“They presented a very different picture of a Kyle Rittenhouse than what we had seen in the media reports. This is a Kyle Rittenhouse that went there to do good, to take graffiti off of a school, to render aid, to help save a business. This was a very … humanized Kyle Rittenhouse, and that’s what the defense wanted to do … I think so far Kyle’s testimony probably went over pretty well.” 

CNN senior legal analyst Laura Coates

“If I was the defense, I would have put him on the stand… There was a lot of sympathetic media towards him, people who thought about him as essentially as bit of a martyr from this inflection point on racial tension in America.”

However, if “I’m the prosecution, I need him to take the stand for the reasons that came through on the cross-examination. Remember, when he was asked questions by his own attorney you saw the waterworks coming out. He was crying… he was overcome with emotion.”

CNN analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson

The defense has “done excellent … the reality is I say they did well.”

“He explained himself with respect to why force was necessary … He said, ‘there was a gun pointed at me, I was in fear for my life.’”

“The reality is that the jurors will render a verdict based upon all types of evidence, but with regard to a defendant testifying, I think this couldn’t have gone much better than it did, and the cross couldn’t touch him with respect to the prosecutor cross-examining him to try to otherwise discredit him. Didn’t do a good job.”

CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin

“The good news for Kyle Rittenhouse is that he’s not on trial for being an idiot. He’s on trial for homicide.”

“This is a tough case for the prosecution because it does seem like he has a plausible case of self-defense and … if it were illegal to be an idiot, the jails would be even more crowded than they are now. Homicide is a different matter … he may have a defense here.”

Rittenhouse says he would have used a handgun for protection if he could have legally possessed it

The prosecution zeroed in on Kyle Rittenhouse’s AR-15 type rifle during cross-examination Wednesday. 

Rittenhouse told Binger that he thought he could possess a rifle, but not purchase it at the age of 17 in Wisconsin.

“I cannot legally possess or carry a pistol because I’m not 18 in Wisconsin. I believe it’s 18 in Wisconsin for a pistol, but with the rifle, I knew I could possess that rifle. I knew I couldn’t buy it but I knew I could like take it, to like the shooting range or possess it,” Rittenhouse said.

Rittenhouse also told Binger that the rifle got in the way at times when he was trying to treat people at the protests in Kenosha that night.

“This big, long AR-15 really got in the way whenever you tried to help someone, right,” Binger asked.

“Sometimes,” Rittenhouse answered, adding, “If I could have legally carried a handgun, I would have carried a handgun…instead of a rifle.”

When Binger asked Rittenhouse if he knew “the capabilities” of the weapon, Rittenhouse replied, “I knew that it could shoot, and I believe from a distance, I don’t know how far I’m not an expert on AR-15s.”

Rittenhouse testifies that he lied during an interview that he was a certified EMT

Kyle Rittenhouse was asked during cross-examination about an interview that he gave to a video journalist the night of the shooting. The prosecution played video clips from that interview during Rittenhouse’s testimony.

In one clip, the person taking the video asks Rittenhouse if he is a certified emergency medical technician. In the video, Rittenhouse replies yes.

After the clip was played, prosecutor Thomas Binger asked Rittenhouse if he lied during the interview that he was an EMT.

“I’m not an EMT,” Rittenhouse replied.

Binger followed up, “You’re not a certified EMT, you’re not an EMT of any kind, you weren’t on that night, correct?”

“Yes,” Rittenhouse responded.

Here was the rest of the exchange:

Rittenhouse says he brought a gun to the protests "to protect myself" if he was attacked

Prosecutor Thomas Binger questioned Kyle Rittenhouse about why he felt it necessary to bring a weapon to the protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer.

When asked by Binger why he thought anyone would attack him at the protests, Rittenhouse said, “I don’t know.”

“I brought the gun to protect myself,” Rittenhouse said.

Here’s more from the exchange between Binger and Rittenhouse:

Rittenhouse defense makes a motion for mistrial

Defense attorney Corey Chirafisi said in court this afternoon that the defense is making a motion for a mistrial with prejudice.

Chirafasi said the prosecutor, ADA Joseph Binger, committed “what amounts to prosecutorial overreach.”

Earlier in the day, Judge Bruce Schroeder asked the jury to leave the courtroom twice during cross-examination and then sharply admonished Binger for his line of questioning.

The first incident related to Binger’s questions about Rittenhouse’s post-arrest silence, a right solidified in the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

“The problem is this is a grave constitutional violation for you to talk about the defendant’s silence,” Schroeder said. “You’re right on the borderline, and you may be over, but it better stop.”

The second admonishment related to questions about an incident two weeks before the shootings that Schroeder has said would not be permitted to come into evidence. 

Chirafasi said this afternoon that the judge “warned” Binger that testifying about “certain things” was “off limits.”

“I think the court has to make some findings as it relates to the bad faith on the part of the prosecution, and if the court makes a finding that the actions that I had talked about were done in bad faith,” Chirafasi said.

The defense attorney asked the court to grant the motion with prejudice.

The judge said he would take the motion under advisement. “There better not be another incident,” he said.

Court resumes in Kyle Rittenhouse trial

The court has resumed in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial after taking a lunch break.

Rittenhouse testified before the break that he was scared for his life and acted in self-defense when he fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum last year in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in what is likely to be the pivotal testimony of his homicide trial.

“I didn’t do anything wrong. I defended myself,” he testified.

In the moments before the shooting, another man, Joshua Ziminski, told Rosenbaum to “get him and kill him,” Rittenhouse testified. Rosenbaum started to chase the teenager in a parking lot and threw a plastic bag at him, but Rittenhouse said he believed at the time that the thrown object was a chain.

The 18-year-old’s stunning testimony came a day after the prosecution rested its case on Tuesday after calling 22 witnesses over six days. The prosecution’s case was highlighted by testimony from an armed paramedic who was shot by Rittenhouse and a journalist who said the gunfire put him in danger.

Rittenhouse judge admonished the prosecutor twice during cross-examination. Here's why.

Twice during cross-examination, Judge Bruce Schroeder asked the jury to leave the courtroom and then sharply admonished Kenosha County Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger for his line of questioning.

The first incident related to Binger’s questions about Rittenhouse’s post-arrest silence, a right solidified in the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution.

“The problem is this is a grave constitutional violation for you to talk about the defendant’s silence,” Schroeder said. “You’re right on the borderline, and you may be over, but it better stop.”

The second admonishment related to questions about an incident two weeks before the shootings that Schroeder has said would not be permitted to come into evidence. 

Binger said he believed that incident was newly relevant to the case, but Schroeder criticized him for not asking permission first and affirmed the evidence would not be allowed.

“I apologize, your honor. You’re right, I probably should have brought this to your attention earlier. I may have misunderstood your ruling because I thought your ruling was if the evidence in this case made that more relevant, you would admit it or at least considered it’s admittance,” Binger said.

Binger said he thought the circumstances would be different because the judge had said he hadn’t heard anything in the trial to change his rulings prior to Rittenhouse’s testimony. 

“Don’t get brazen with me,” Schroeder told Binger. “You know very well that an attorney can’t go into these types of areas when the judge has already ruled without asking outside the presence of the jury to do so, so don’t give me that.”

The court is in a lunch break

The court is taking a break for lunch until 2 p.m. ET.

The prosecution has been cross-examining Kyle Rittenhouse about how the night of the shooting unfolded.

Before the prosecution began, Rittenhouse testified that he was scared for his life and acted in self-defense when he fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum last year in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in what is likely to be the pivotal testimony of his homicide trial.

“I didn’t do anything wrong. I defended myself,” he testified.

Judge Schroeder is viewed as a tough jurist: "He doesn't like to be pushed around by either party"

Kenosha County Circuit Court Judge Bruce Schroeder is known to be viewed as a tough jurist.

During today’s line of questioning, Schroeder stopped prosecutor Thomas Binger’s cross-examination of Kyle Rittenhouse to admonish the prosecution team’s line of questioning.

The two had a testy exchange after the judge asked the jury to leave the courtroom.

Schroeder also made headlines last month by reiterating his longstanding rule of not allowing prosecutors to refer to people as “victims” before juries in his courtroom.

At the same time, Schroeder said at a pretrial hearing that the men who were shot could be described as “looters” or “rioters” if the defense can show they engaged in such activity during protests after a police officer shot Jacob Blake in August 2020, leaving Blake paralyzed.

His decision immediately sparked debate and in some cases outrage in legal circles and Schroeder, the longest serving active judge in Wisconsin’s trial courts was, once again, thrust into the spotlight.

“His word is final and he’s not afraid to make tough decisions,” said Dan Adams, a Wisconsin criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.

Schroeder, 75, has come under scrutiny many times during his nearly 40 years on the bench: From a 2018 sentence — thrown out on appeal — requiring a convicted shoplifter to tell store managers she was on supervision for retail theft, to ordering AIDS tests for sex workers in the late 1980s.

“He has a reputation for doing what he believes is the right thing and being an independent thinker,” said William Lynch, a retired attorney who served on the board of the ACLU of Wisconsin at the time of Schroeder ruling about the AIDS tests.

“And it’s his courtroom. He doesn’t like to be pushed around by either party. So he has a strong sense of his own his bearing in the courtroom,” Lynch said.

CNN has sought comment from Schroeder.

A seasoned southeast Wisconsin attorney who has appeared before Schroeder many times described the judge as “someone who has studied the Constitution and the enumerated rights for criminal defendants and… respects the right of the defense to put on a defense.”

“He’s a super old school guy,” said the attorney, who asked not to be named because he still appears before Schroeder.

“And that doesn’t mean that he’s old. I mean he’s 75 years old, which is older than most judges, but he’s just an old school guy. He still operates his courtroom like it’s 1980.”

Schroeder will be 80 when his current terms ends in 2026.

The Wisconsin defense attorney who asked not to be identified noted that Schroeder’s sharp tongue and sometimes combative manner have “mellowed” over the years.

“He barks some and, for younger lawyers, they are very sensitive to that sort of thing. ‘Oh, the judge yelled at me.’” the attorney said. “Like, toughen up, buttercup. This is felony court. Older lawyers are like, ‘Okay, he yelled at me. And then I saw him in the hallway and he asked me how my son’s basketball game was.’ That’s just his style.”

Read more here.

Judge admonishes prosecutor over Rittenhouse cross-examination

Judge Bruce Schroeder stopped prosecutor Thomas Binger’s cross-examination of Kyle Rittenhouse to admonish the prosecution team’s line of questioning.

The two had a testy exchange after the judge asked the jury to leave the courtroom.

“Don’t get brazen with me,” Schroeder told Binger.

The exchange is ongoing.

Rittenhouse says he chose an AR-15 in part because it "looked cool"

Kyle Rittenhouse testified that when he chose a gun for his friend, Dominick Black, to purchase for him, he selected an AR-15 over a pistol because he believed he could not legally possess a pistol, and thought the AR-15 “looked cool.”

“So you’re telling us that the reason that you wanted Dominic to buy you an AR-15 as opposed to a pistol… the only reason is because you felt you couldn’t lawfully possess a pistol?” asked prosecutor Thomas Binger.

“Correct,” responded Rittenhouse.

“You didn’t pick out the AR-15 for any other reason?” continued Binger.

Rittenhouse then agreed with the prosecutor that he had not purchased the weapon to hunt, or for home protection, again saying he, “thought it looked cool if that’s a reason.”

Rittenhouse then took issue with the prosecutor’s suggestion that he might have chosen the AR-15 because similar weapons appear in first-person shooter video games, saying “there are guns in video games that resemble all guns.”

“It’s just a video game,” he said later in the exchange. “It’s not real life.”

Rittenhouse testifies he didn't intend to kill anyone, but agrees he used "deadly force"

Prosecutor Thomas Binger is now cross-examining defendant Kyle Rittenhouse. The ADA opened his questioning of Rittenhouse by asking, “Everyone you shot at that night you intended to kill, correct?”

“I didn’t intend to kill them. I intended to stop the people who were attacking me,” Rittenhouse said.

When Binger pressed Rittenhouse that he stopped these people by “killing them,” Rittenhouse pushed back, responding, “Two of them passed away, but I stopped the threat from attacking me.”

Rittenhouse agreed with Binger that he intentionally used “deadly force” on his victims that night.

The cross-examination is ongoing.

Rittenhouse testifies that he saw a pistol in shooting victim Gaige Grosskreutz's hand before he shot him

Kyle Rittenhouse testified that after he fell to the ground, he saw Gaige Grosskreutz standing in front of him. He said that he saw a pistol in Grosskreutz’s hand.

“That’s when I shoot him,” he continued.

He said that he shot Grosskreutz once but did not know where he shot him.

Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz once in his right bicep with his AR-15 rifle. Grosskreutz was the only shooting victim to survive.

Asked by his attorney what happened after he shot Grosskreutz, Rittenhouse said, “He’s no longer a threat to me.”

Rittenhouse says Anthony Huber was "holding a skateboard like a baseball bat" when he shot him

After shooting Joseph Rosenbaum, Kyle Rittenhouse described running past Anthony Huber toward the police line.

“As I’m running past Mr. Huber, he’s holding a skateboard like a baseball bat and he swings it down and I block it with my arm trying to prevent it from hitting me, but it still hits me in the neck. And as I block it, it goes flying somewhere off into the distance,” Rittenhouse said.

He says he got light-headed and fell to the ground.

Rittenhouse said that person jumped at him.

“As his boot is making contact with my face, I fire two shots at him,” Rittenhouse said.

“Why did you shoot at him?” defense attorney Mike Richards asked.

“He would have stomped my face in if I didn’t fire,” Rittenhouse replied. 

Rittenhouse said Huber then ran over and hit him a second time in the neck with a skateboard and grabbed at his gun.

“I can feel the strap starting to come off my body,” Rittenhouse said.

Kyle Rittenhouse describes shooting: "I didn't do anything wrong. I defended myself."

Kyle Rittenhouse said that as he was running, shooting victim Joseph Rosenbaum threw a bag and a chain at him. He said that another person with Rosenbaum told him, “get him, kill him.”

Rittenhouse said that he pointed his gun at Rosenbaum, who continued to chase him.

Defense attorney Mark Richards asked Rittenhouse, “As you see him lunging at you, what do you do?” 

“I shoot him,” he responded.

Asked by his attorney how many times he shot Rosenbaum, he said, “I believe four.” 

Rittenhouse said that he continued running with the intention of going to the police.

Asked why he was trying to get to the police, Rittenhouse said, “Because I didn’t do anything wrong. I defended myself.”

READ MORE:

Armed paramedic who was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse testifies he thought teen was an active shooter
More than a dozen video clips were played during Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial last week. Here’s what they showed
Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial has begun. These are the 3 men he shot
He shot them dead, but judge won’t let them be called ‘victims’

READ MORE:

Armed paramedic who was shot by Kyle Rittenhouse testifies he thought teen was an active shooter
More than a dozen video clips were played during Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial last week. Here’s what they showed
Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial has begun. These are the 3 men he shot
He shot them dead, but judge won’t let them be called ‘victims’