CNN town hall with Mike Pence

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence criticized his former boss President Donald Trump for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and his praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin in a CNN town hall on Wednesday night.

Pence appeared at the town hall hosted by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, hours after he officially launched his bid for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination from the same state.

Here are four moments Pence separated himself from Trump:

Vladimir Putin and Russia’s war in Ukraine: One of Pence’s sharpest criticisms of Trump came when he was asked about the United States’ role in helping Ukraine to repel Russia’s invasion. After arguing that the US should accelerate its support for the Ukrainian military, Pence pointed to Trump’s description of Putin in a February 2022 radio interview as a “genius” for his invasion of Ukraine. “I know the difference between a genius and a war criminal, and I know who needs to win the war in Ukraine,” Pence said.

January 6 insurrection: Pence broke with Trump over the legal fates of those who rioted at the US Capitol on January 6 – and have since faced criminal charges and convictions. Trump said he would consider pardoning many of those rioters, who he said were being treated “very unfairly.” Pence, though, said the United States “cannot ever allow what happened on January 6 to happen again in the heart of our democracy.” “I have no interest or no intention of pardoning those that assaulted police officers or vandalized our Capitol. They need to answer to the law,” he said.

Social Security: Pence said Social Security and Medicare need to be reformed, saying both programs are tracking toward bankruptcy in the next five or 10 years. “It is also disappointing to me that Donald Trump’s position on entitlement reform is identical to Joe Biden’s. I mean, their policy is insolvency,” he said.

Immigration: Pence said he would not bring back his administration’s controversial family separation policy to manage migrants at the US-Mexico border — breaking with Trump’s comments during the CNN town hall last month. The “zero tolerance” policy encapsulated the lengths Trump’s administration was willing to go to deter migrants from coming to the United States, and Trump said it remained a strong deterrent. “When you say to a family that if you come, we’re going to break you up, they don’t come,” Trump said during the town hall.

And here are other key takeaways from the town hall:

Justice Department investigations: Pence urged the Justice Department not to indict his onetime boss, saying such an indictment would fuel division inside the country and “send a terrible message to the wider world.” While Pence said that “no one is above the law,” he said the DOJ could resolve its investigation into Trump’s potential mishandling of classified documents without resorting to an indictment, just as the department informed Pence’s attorney last week that there would be no charges brought in the case of the classified documents discovered in his home.

Transgender children: Pence repeatedly highlighted his support for “parents’ rights,” especially when it comes to schools. But he said the judgment of those same parents should not apply to situations when a minor is seeking gender transition care. “I strongly support state legislation, including, as we did in Indiana, that bans all gender transition, chemical or surgical procedures, under the age of 18,” he said – even when parents support their child’s decision to go forward.

Pro-life stance on abortion: Pence made clear he would not deviate from his anti-abortion position, saying, “We will not rest or relent until we restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law in every state in the country” and that he does not apologize for being pro-life. On the question of a federal ban on the procedure, Pence said he supported exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. He also offered qualified support for social spending programs to help support newborns and new parents but stopped short of specifically endorsing paid family leave for all Americans or subsidized child care.

Read more takeaways here.

Former Vice President Mike Pence took questions from voters in Iowa on Wednesday night during a CNN town hall.

Here are some of the claims he made:

Inflation: Pence claimed at the town hall that “families are struggling right now with record inflation.” At two other moments, he claimed, in present tense, that inflation is “at a 40-year high.”

The US inflation rate hit a 40-year high in June 2022, 9.1%, but that was not close to the all-time record high of 23.7%, set in 1920. And that 9.1% rate last June was not even close to the record for the modern era, 14.8% in 1980.

In addition, the current inflation rate is nowhere near that 40-year high from mid-2022. After hitting 9.1% in June 2022, the inflation rate has fallen for 10 straight months. The most recent available rate, for April, was 4.9%.

From CNN’s Daniel Dale

Aid to Ukraine: Pence said that he and Trump “ended what was a ban during the Obama-Biden administration on any military resources at all” to Ukraine, whereas the Obama-Biden administration was providing “military meals and blankets.”

“We provided javelin missiles — all they were providing was military meals and blankets. We corrected that and Ukraine was better suited to be able to deal with this Russian invasion,” Pence said.

While it’s true that the Obama administration declined to provide weapons to Ukraine, it provided more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine between 2014 and 2016 that involved far more than meals and blankets (or pillows and sheets). The aid included counter-artillery and counter-mortar radars, armored Humvees, tactical drones, night vision devices and medical supplies.

From CNN’s Haley Britzky

Family separation at the border: Pence was asked about the Trump administration’s brief but controversial family separation policy, which triggered a crisis in spring 2018 when immigration officials separated thousands of children from their parents after they illegally crossed the US-Mexico border. Pence criticized the policy and – breaking from Trump – said he wouldn’t bring it back. But he also blamed Obama for its creation.

“The family separation policy actually began under the Obama administration,” Pence said.

CNN previously debunked this claim when Trump repeatedly made similar comments during his tenure.

In short, during the Obama years, children were occasionally separated from their parents in rare situations, like if the adults were caught with drugs or there was a potential human trafficking situation.

But Trump dramatically changed things in spring 2018. He imposed a “zero tolerance” policy, where every adult border-crosser would be criminally prosecuted. With the adults being sent to jail, the children were separated from them and sent to detention centers run by the Department of Health and Human Services.

That systematic family separation absolutely did not begin under Obama, as Pence claimed Wednesday night. More than 3,900 children were ultimately separated under Trump, according to federal data.

From CNN’s Marshall Cohen

Read more fact checks here.

Former Vice President Mike Pence took the stage on Wednesday night for a CNN town hall in Des Moines, Iowa.

He criticized his former boss, Donald Trump, for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results and his praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

See photos from the evening inside Grand View University:

Former Vice President Mike Pence speaks to the crowd during a town hall on Wednesday, June 7, 2023.

Audience members listen as former Vice President Mike Pence responds to a question.

Mike Pence gestures while answering a question while on stage with CNN's Dana Bash.

Mike Pence, reflected in the glass, participates in the town hall as audience members listen.

Mike Pence smiles as an audience member asks a question during the town hall on June 7, 2023.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said Social Security and Medicare need to be reformed, saying both programs are tracking toward bankruptcy in the next five or 10 years.

Pence declined to answer whether he would raise the retirement age.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence, when asked about the wave of mass shootings in the US, said he believed the rapid implementation of capital punishment for shooters will deter future incidents.

In response to a question about whether he believes in a national “red flag” law, he said: “We’ve got to be very cautious.”

“Red flag” laws, found in more than a dozen states, are also known as Extreme Risk Protection Order laws – and they allow courts to temporarily seize firearms from anyone believed to be a danger to themselves or others.

Some background: There have been more than 250 mass shootings in the US so far this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive.

President Joe Biden has taken more than 20 executive actions on guns since taking office, including regulating the use of “ghost guns” and sales of stabilizing braces that effectively turn pistols into rifles. He also signed a bipartisan bill in 2022 which expands background checks and provides federal funding for so-called “red flag laws” – although it failed to ban any weapons and fell far short of what Biden and his party had advocated for.

White House officials have been sober about the political realities Democrats face with the current makeup of Congress, where Republicans in control of the House have rejected Biden’s calls for an assault weapons ban. Even when both chambers of Congress were controlled by Democrats during the first two years of Biden’s term, an assault weapon ban gained little traction, in part because of a 60-vote threshold necessary for passage.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said that he hopes to bring back decency and civility into politics when asked how he plans to unite Americans.

“You know, I think our politics are more divided than ever before — in my lifetime. But I’m not convinced that the American people are as divided as our politics,” Pence said.

Pence reflected on his relationship with the late Civil Rights icon John Lewis and how despite their differences they were able to get along and found common ground in their Christian faith.

“But John and I, again, never agreed on much. But we could always talk. And I think that’s what we have to get back to. When you think about the challenges we’re facing in America, I just think we’ve got to get back to the kind of politics that reflects the decency and civility that the American people show each other every day. And I believe we will. And I hope to be part of it,” he said.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said he would “take a step back” from the approach of the Trump administration’s landmark sentencing reform bill, the First Step Act.

Under the First Step Act, thousands of federal inmates, most of them serving sentences for drug offense and weapons charges, were released from prison early either for good behavior or rehabilitation programs. The legislation also eased mandatory minimum sentences for certain drug offenders.

Pence was asked about 2024 rival Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’ promise to repeal the First Step Act if elected president.

Pence again conceded that he would take a different approach than the First Step Act and said, “We ought to be thinking about how we make penalties tougher on people that are victimizing families in this country.”

Aligning with DeSantis, Pence also added that he would not defund the police, a popular sentiment that arose in 2020.

Asked repeatedly how he could commit to supporting former President Donald Trump if he were the GOP nominee for president, Mike Pence said Wednesday night he does not think Trump will be the Republican nominee and that the people of Iowa will recognize that “different times call for different leadership.”

Pence once again said anyone who holds the office of president should never put themselves above the Constitution, referring to Trump pressuring him to overturn the 2020 election results.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said that people’s concerns with the Biden-Harris administration will help him reach out to “Trump or nothing voters.”

Jesse Johnson, an Iowa Republican caucus voter, asked Pence how he plans on reaching “hardcore Trump or nothing Republican voters.”

Pence responded: “I think Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are going to be the great unifiers of the Republican party.”

He went on to say that he does not worry about the unity of the party and claimed that everywhere he goes he hears how people are “deeply concerned” in the current administration’s policies.

He added, when Republican voters play their role in the primaries, “I’m confident that whoever our standard bearer is, — and I hope it’s me — is going to be supported by Republicans and independents and many Democrats around the country, who know we can do better, and we can bring this country back,” Pence said.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said restoring the level of trust of government agencies “begins with recognizing that personnel is policy” and the people you surround yourself with define the capacity to serve and advance policies. 

Pence said based on his experiences working as a congressman, governor and vice president, he would know what to do and who to do it with to put this country back on track.

“And I promise you, if you give me the privilege to service as president of the United States, we’ll assemble a team you’ll be proud of on day one,” Pence said.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday.

Former Vice President Mike Pence acknowledged that the climate is changing, but said he does not believe the change to be dramatic.

He said there will be “modest changes in temperature” over the next century and proposed “American innovation” as an approach in dealing with the rising temperatures.

Pence also called for better forest management as ongoing smoke from Canadian wildfires has more than 75 million Americans under air quality alerts.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday.

Former Vice President Mike Pence addressed transgender transition procedures during tonight’s CNN town hall and said that he believes individuals should wait until adulthood for permanent treatments.

Pressed by CNN’s Dana Bash about how he would respond on a human level to a child or a teen who feels targeted by his view, Pence responded, “I would tell them that I love everybody. I’d put my arm around them. And their parents. But before they had a chemical or surgical procedure, I would say wait. Just wait.”

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday night he supports US aid to Ukraine and called out former President Donald Trump for his praise for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Pence’s remarks put him in stark contrast with Trump, who — during his town hall — would not say whether he wanted Ukraine to win the war. The former president glossed over the question when asked in May.

“I want everybody to stop dying. They’re dying. Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying,” Trump said at CNN’s town hall moderated by CNN’s Kaitlan Collins. “And I’ll have that done in 24 hours.”

Pence, for his part, took a defiant tone about Russia and Putin, saying he has spoken to the Russian leader, looked him in the eye and told him things he did not want to hear.

“Anybody that thinks Vladimir Putin will stop if he overruns Ukraine has what we say back in Indiana ‘another thing coming.’ He has no intention of stopping. He’s made it clear that he wants to recreate that old Soviet sphere of influence in Eastern Europe,” he said.

Pence then admonished Trump for calling Putin a genius in February on a conservative radio show.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said he would not bring back his administration’s controversial family separation policy to manage migrants at the US-Mexico border.

Pence was asked by CNN’s Dana Bash about former President Donald Trump’s answer to a question about the issue at a previous CNN town hall. Bash said that Trump asserted “your administration’s family separation policy was an effective deterrent and refused to rule out bringing it back as president. Would you bring it back?”

“No,” Pence said.

This is different from Trump’s position that he would return the separation policy if he was elected president again.

“When you say to a family that if you come, we’re going to break you up, they don’t come,” Trump said. His comments came just before Title 42, the Trump-era pandemic public health restriction that became a key tool officials used to expel migrants at the US-Mexico border, was expiring.

However, Pence said Title 42 should be reinstated.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7, 2023.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said that if elected president, he would marshal Congress to build a military to specifically respond to provocations by China.

Asked by CNN’s Dana Bash about how a Pence administration would deal with concerning military encounters with China, the former vice president responded:

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said he would support a federal ban on the Chinese- owned app TikTok and said “everything TikTok gets, the Chinese communist government has access to.”

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Vice President Mike Pence reaffirmed his stance as pro-life and pointed to initiatives and legislation throughout his career that advanced that position.

He said that the first time he ran for Congress 20 years ago, his pro-life stance was central to his motivation to go to Washington

“All my time in Congress, I stood for the right the life. I authored the first legislation to defund Planned Parenthood,” he said to applause from the audience.

When he was governor of Indiana, Pence said that while continuing to uphold his pro-life beliefs, his administration also promoted adoption reform. 

“I believe that if you’re going to be pro-life you need to be pro-adoption,” Pence said.

Some background: Pence has long charted a political identity with anti-abortion advocacy at its core since his days as a conservative congressman from Indiana. Just weeks after the Roe v. Wade was overturned last summer, the former vice president traveled to South Carolina to deliver a speech outlining a Republican policy blueprint for “post-Roe America.”

He and his wife Karen Pence have raised funds for crisis pregnancy centers and in keynote remarks at a gala for Susan B. Anthony Pro-life America in September. Pence also appeared to endorse Republican efforts to shepherd a national abortion ban through Congress.

At a CNN town hall in November, Pence praised the Dobbs decision, saying it gave “the American people a new beginning for life.” While suggesting that laws around abortion had been “returned to the states and the American people, where it belongs,” Pence also said he remains hopeful that all 50 states will eventually “stand for the sanctity of life.”

Pence has also been more willing than his 2024 rivals to embrace a national effort to outlaw abortion. He said on New Hampshire’s WMUR last month that he would “look for ways to advance the sanctity of life at the national level.”

The former vice president also touted his hand in appointing pro-life judges during his time serving in the Trump administration, namely the US Supreme Court’s decision to overturn federal abortion protections in Roe v. Wade.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

When asked about investigations into former President Donald Trump, former Vice President Mike Pence said “no one is above the law” but indicting a former president sends a terrible message to the world and would “be terribly divisive to the country.” 

CNN’s Dana Bash pressed Pence on whether that means he believes investigators shouldn’t move forward with an indictment even if they believe Trump committed a crime.

Pence replied that “no one’s above the law” and added “I would just hope that there would be a way for them to move forward without the dramatic and drastic and divisive step of indicting a former president of the United States.”

Pence also said it would “be terribly divisive to the country” if Trump were to be indicted by federal investigators over possible obstruction of justice and mishandling of classified documents. 

“This kind of action by the Department of Justice I think would only fuel further division in the country,” Pence said. He added later, “I hope the DOJ thinks better of it and resolves these issues without an indictment.”

CNN reported earlier Wednesday that the Justice Department recently informed Trump’s legal team that he is a target in the federal investigation into the possible mishandling of classified documents, sources familiar with the matter tell CNN, a sign that prosecutors may be moving closer to indicting the former president. 

Asked if he would pardon Trump if he’s convicted of crime, Pence said he would not speak about hypotheticals. Pence again said that “no one’s above the law” and that “the handling of classified materials is a very serious matter.”

He said that he doesn’t “know the facts of the former president’s case. But what we’ve got to have in this country is equal treatment under the law.”

Pence added he was “troubled” over the search warrant executed by the Justice Department at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort. “There had to be dozens of ways that could have been handled other than that kind of behavior,” he said.

He then pivoted to criticizing President Joe Biden over his timeframe of alerting the DOJ about documents found in his office.

More on the Mar-a-Lago documents probe: The special counsel’s investigation has scrutinized Trump’s handling of classified documents he brought with him to his Mar-a-Lago Florida resort after leaving the White House, including actions that were taken after Trump received a subpoena in May 2022 to return all classified materials in his possession. Last August, FBI agents retrieved more than 100 classified documents from Mar-a-Lago after obtaining a search warrant.  

CNN’s Kaitlan Collins, Paula Reid, Sara Murray, Jeremy Herb and Kristen Holmes contributed reporting in this post.  

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Former Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday night that he has “no interest or no intention” of pardoning people who attacked the Capitol on January 6, 2021.

“I have no interest or no intention of pardoning those that assaulted police officers or vandalized our capitol. They need to be answerable to the law,” Pence told Dana Bash during a CNN town hall in Des Moines, Iowa.

He referenced a statement he made on Twitter the day of the attack urging people to leave the Capitol and discouraging violence.

Pence’s comments contrast with former President Donald Trump, who said he was “inclined to pardon” many of the pro-Trump rioters who were convicted for their roles in the attack on the Capitol. He said he won’t be able to pardon “every single one” but said “it will be a large portion of them.”

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has also suggested that he would consider pardoning some convicted on January 6 charges.

CNN’s Veronica Stracqualursi contributed reporting to this post.

Former Vice President Mike Pence participates in a CNN Republican Presidential Town Hall moderated by CNN’s Dana Bash at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, on Wednesday, June 7.

Asked Wednesday if a vote for Donald Trump is a vote against the Constitution, Mike Pence referred to his experiences during the January 6 insurrection, where Trump asserted Pence had the right to overturn the election results.

“I said today President Trump was wrong then, he’s wrong now,” he added.