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Meet the Trans Lawyer Making History at the Supreme Court
CNN One Thing
Dec 4, 2024
The Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments today in a case that could reshape the landscape of transgender medical care for young Americans. One of the lawyers arguing for the plaintiffs will make history just by being there.
Guest: Chelsea Bailey, CNN Senior Writer
Episode Transcript
David Rind
00:00:00
There are more than 330 million people in America. According to estimates, roughly 1.6 million of them are transgender, 1.6 million. That's less than 1%. And while they may represent just a fraction of the population, the debate over what spaces transgender people should have access to has become a flashpoint in conversations across the country. From Capitol Hill, after Delaware Democrat Sarah McBride became the first transgender person elected to Congress.
Rep Nancy Mace
00:00:34
If McBride wants to go to the gym. She can go to Planet Fitness, where they allow biological men to be around and in a room in a private space with underage girls. Like no thank you.
David Rind
00:00:45
To college campuses.
Alex Marquardt
00:00:46
Boise State University says it's going to be forfeiting tomorrow's semifinal match against San Jose State University over reports of a transgender player on the roster.
Boris Sanchez
00:00:57
It's the seventh time this year a team has boycotted a match against San Jose State. Neither the university or the player in question have commented publicly on the player's gender.
David Rind
00:01:07
What's more, 26 states have passed laws banning what is considered medically necessary health care for trans youth. For people in need of that gender affirming health care. This isn't up for debate. Advocates say it can be a matter of life and death. And now the question of whether one of those bans should remain in place has arrived at the highest court in the land. My guest is CNN's senior writer Chelsea Bailey. She has the story of the transgender lawyer who is set to make history in front of the Supreme Court. From CNN, this is One Thing. I'm David Rind.
David Rind
00:01:57
Chelsea, what is this case? The Supreme Court is scheduled to hear on Wednesday.
Chelsea Bailey
00:02:02
'Yeah. So this is one of the most high profile disputes on the docket this session. The case is called U.S. versus Acrimony, and it challenges a Tennessee law that bans treatments like hormone therapy and puberty blockers for transgender minors. And it also imposes civil penalties on doctors who violate the law and provide the treatment anyway. So the justices will decide whether Tennessee's ban on gender affirming care violates the Constitution's equal protection clause. And if they do decide that it violates the Constitution, it could mean that any law targeting trans people is unconstitutional and discriminatory. A ruling along those lines would give civil rights lawyers a way to fight anti-trans laws like bathroom bans and bans on trans people playing school sports. But a ruling that allows the Tennessee ban to stand could clear the way for states to pass other laws targeting trans folks.
David Rind
00:02:57
So this could really shape the way this all kind of moves forward. When we hear about gender affirming care, I know that's like a term that gets thrown around when we're talking about this issue. But can you just describe the arguments on both sides for why trans people say they need this care and why the other side is trying to restrict it in the way that they have, like in Tennessee?
Chelsea Bailey
00:03:19
Yeah. So gender affirming care has become a really big fault line, maybe in our culture where lately these.
Lawmaker
00:03:26
Children do not need these medical procedures as children to be able to flourish as adults.
Chelsea Bailey
00:03:33
The Republican lawmakers who are passing these parents usually frame it as they're trying to protect kids.
Lawmaker
00:03:39
And in most circumstances, quite frankly, they just need time to develop through adolescence so that they can be the healthy, happy adult that they were designed to be.
Chelsea Bailey
00:03:47
So they say that, you know, kids aren't allowed to make big life changing decisions like, you know, having sex under age or when when they get married until they're adults. And they view these laws as a similar that they're trying to protect kids from making life changing decisions.
David Rind
00:04:07
Like once you reach a certain age, then you can go ahead and have these kind of procedures. But when you're under age like this, it's just too young.
Chelsea Bailey
00:04:14
Yes, that would be part of the argument that some of these lawmakers have put forward. But parents and advocates for trans children in particular say that the earlier you can get this health care, the better and it's medically necessary to actually provide this health care.
Doctor
00:04:32
They've been legislating all kinds of, you know, things that are relevant to the field of medicine without being doctors themselves. And a lot of times without speaking to experts in the field that they're legislating. And that's dangerous.
Chelsea Bailey
00:04:44
For people experiencing gender dysphoria, which is when your gender identity does not align with your sex that you were assigned at birth. It can be really traumatizing. It can cause a lot of anxiety. And research shows that the risk for suicide among people who are experiencing this is actually really high. So parents are saying that it's in the best interest of my child to provide gender affirming care so that they can live as authentically themselves as possible when they make those arguments. They often cite major medical associations like the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics. And all of these medical associations have said gender affirming care is appropriate even for children who are under age. But they also kind of view this as a violation of, you know, their ability to make decisions as parents for what's best for their kids.
David Rind
00:05:42
The parents say, if I want my kid to have this procedure or get puberty blockers, they should be able to.
Chelsea Bailey
00:05:50
You know, I think they would say I've made this decision in consultation with doctors and my child. We have worked together to determine that this is the best way forward for my child. I should be able to make that decision without the government weighing in. So the case is finally made its way to the Supreme Court. It could have very huge implications for people on both sides and could truly change the lives of trans folks living here in the United States, including the life of the lawyer who is arguing the case.
David Rind
00:06:26
What do you mean by that?
Chelsea Bailey
00:06:27
Yeah. So the lawyer who will be presenting the case for the ACLU alongside the Biden administration is a transgender man. His name is Chase Strangio.
Chelsea Bailey
00:06:43
I don't know. I mean, like, how have you been? How's it. How's it going so far? I guess since last week.
Chase Strangio
00:06:49
So I'm sort of keeping my head down, focusing on December 4th...
Chelsea Bailey
00:06:55
Chase is a lawyer with the ACLU. He's actually been at the center of a lot of our really big cases for LGBTQ rights over the last decade or so. So he was a lawyer on the case that gave us marriage equality. He was a lawyer on a recent case that ruled discriminating against LGBTQ people at work is unconstitutional.
Chase Strangio
00:07:17
I've been litigating these cases since 2021, when Arkansas first passed a medical care ban for trans adolescents. And it's been a really big part of my life. It's been a meaningful part of my life to be able to be a part of the challenge to these laws that obviously have such devastating impacts for my my community.
Chelsea Bailey
00:07:38
But this will be the first time that a trans person has ever argued in front of the Supreme Court. And Chase will be the person delivering these oral arguments that are actually really personal to him.
David Rind
00:07:51
Because he's had gender affirming care like this. This has touched his life in a unique way.
Chelsea Bailey
00:07:56
Yes. When I had a chance to talk to him, he was really clear eyed about that. He said, you know, it's not lost on me that I'm able to stand here as my authentic self because of gender affirming care. So I think his case is both a bit of him fighting for up and coming generations and also fighting for himself.
Chelsea Bailey
00:08:17
Did you always know you wanted to be a lawyer? You know, so little kids dream about that. But is that something you always thought about?
Chase Strangio
00:08:24
No, it wasn't.
Chelsea Bailey
00:08:26
So something I thought that was really interesting actually told me is that he really got into law because he was a really passionate activist for his community and he wanted a way to kind of marry his activism with a wider impact. So that's why he decided to become a lawyer.
Chase Strangio
00:08:43
You know, as a younger person struggling with my own queer and trans, that was a hard place to imagine myself, especially, you know, especially in the context of something like litigation where you are, you know, sort of involved in a very theatrical enterprise where there is a lot of gendered roles and there are a lot of gendered expectations. And I didn't really imagine a place for myself in that work, and it's taken me time to just find my way.
Chelsea Bailey
00:09:12
So he started at the ACLU in 2012, and I actually had a chance to talk to the person that hired him who said he still remembered the answer that made him decide that he was going to hire Chase essentially as when he was doing more activist work. Chase started an organization to help trans immigrants raise money for bail. And that really impressed his colleague, James Essex, who told me that he was really impressed with how Chace married his passion for activism and empathy with with action. And he wanted more of that at the ACLU.
Chase Strangio
00:09:49
Going backwards, sort of retrenching, you know, ideas about gender that are fixed and binary and limiting for all people. I don't I don't want that future. And so that's part of what I see the work being.
David Rind
00:10:16
I wonder if Chase kind of sees himself at all as like, the token trans person in this legal fight, like, here's a big case about transgender care. We better be sure to have a trans person involved in that somehow. Does he hear any of that?
Chelsea Bailey
00:10:31
Yeah, I think that's a you know, that's obviously part of the conversation because this is so historic. And his appearance before the court is so historic. But Chase doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about that. And in fact, has his coworkers kind of scoffed at that idea? They are really insistent that Chase has been at the forefront of a lot of these cases for years leading up to this. And all of that experience just makes him the right person for this very consequential case.
Chase Strangio
00:11:02
I'm extraordinarily used to being in environments where the conversations are, you know, are sort of framed around a lack of understanding of existence.
Chelsea Bailey
00:11:14
So Chase is really stepping into history at this kind of toxic time in our culture, honestly, around transgender people. And, you know, he's stepping into the spotlight at this time. And that's had, you know, consequences on his life.
Chase Strangio
00:11:29
If we see the narrative drain to people who have ideas about us that are not informed by anything other than misinformation or animus, and that has an impact on on our our lives.
Chelsea Bailey
00:11:44
But I thought it was really interesting that he told me he's not a miserable person despite a lot of the attacks that he gets both online and in person. He might be arguing in these court cases against people who don't think that he has the right to exist as a trans person. And he said, you know, one of the most powerful things he can do is stand before people who feel this way and just show them that he's not miserable.
Chase Strangio
00:12:14
And that's one of the things that I find really powerful about being a trans person in this work is, you know, I'm I'm deposing experts whose entire theory of trans rights is that it makes people miserable, but they have to be confronted with me as I am distinctly not a miserable person. Right. And I don't approach this work from a place of being downtrodden despite all of this. And so I want that confrontation to happen in the discourse, in the culture and in all of our legal advocacy.
Chelsea Bailey
00:12:45
That this gender affirming care actually gives people the chance to live their best life.
David Rind
00:12:50
It unlocked something totally new and positive for him when on the other side, you hear some lawmakers saying like, this is dangerous and it'll actually make people more depressed or that kind of thing.
Chelsea Bailey
00:13:05
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the arguments is that providing this care comes with a lot of regret and that people somewhere down the line are miserable. And Chase was really emphatic that, you know, he said, I'm not a miserable person. I'm happy. And most of the trans people I know are also happy when they're able to live authentically as themselves.
David Rind
00:13:29
Well, so clearly, he's personally invested in the outcome here in a way that most lawyers who come to the Supreme Court aren't. But beyond the courtroom, how is the wider trans community preparing for whatever the justices may decide here?
Chelsea Bailey
00:13:44
Yeah, it's a really good question. I spent the last few weeks talking to trans folks across the country. And to be honest, a lot of them are scared.
President Elect Donald Trump
00:13:53
There are some places your boy leaves, the school comes back, a girl. Okay. Without parental consent. What is that all about?
Chelsea Bailey
00:14:03
That we're also coming out of an election season that Republicans and the Trump campaign really pushed this transgender narrative.
Political Ad
00:14:13
Kamala even supports letting biological men compete against our girls in their sports. Kamala is for a day them. President Trump is for you.
Chelsea Bailey
00:14:23
And I think that that's really just kind of heightened anxiety among a lot of people in the trans community. I talked to a mom who was really frank when she told me, you know, we were not happy when the Supreme Court agreed to take up this case because the decision, the ruling and the precedent could be so final for her. She's a mom in Tennessee and she's already kind of planning contingencies. She takes her daughter to California to get her gender affirming care because of Tennessee's ban. Wow. And, you know, she's a lifelong Tennessee resident, but she is considering moving out of the state to another part of the country where she can get the care that she needs for her daughter.
David Rind
00:15:14
Yeah. And this idea of having. To travel out of state for the care is obviously a big fear, big cost that could be exacerbated depending on what this ruling actually is. Again, the ruling may not come until the end of the court's term in June, so it might be a couple of months, but we'll see what happens. Chelsea, thank you so much.
Chelsea Bailey
00:15:34
Yeah, Thank you.
David Rind
00:15:48
One thing is a production of CNN Audio. This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz and me, David Rind. Our senior producers are Felicia Patinkin and Faiz Jamil. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan Dzula is our technical director and Steve Lickteig is the executive producer of CNN Audio. We get support from Hayley Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dianora, Leni Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Pesaru and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage and Katie Hinman. Lots of ways you can let us know how we're doing. You can leave a rating and review wherever you listen. That's helpful. You can find me on social media. I'm on Blue Sky now trying it out. And we just love hearing from you. So thanks for listening. Talk to you on Sunday.
