Elon Musk has contracts with the federal government.

Conflict of interest!

But he is also, I think, doing an effective job in rooting out the waste, abuse, and fraud weeded out.

Show me!

Scenes like this have been popping up at congressional Republican town halls across the country the last couple of weeks.

We've lost 10% of our workforce.

Shut up and let him talk.

I will not shut up!.

Constituents angry at how Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency have been slashing federal workers left and right, or fearful of what might be coming next. Have been lashing out. I'm asking you.

I’m asking you today to please do not cut the Medicaid budget.

Senator Roger Marshall from Kansas was interrupted numerous times during his town hall. He ended up cutting things short.

We don't have time for one to stand up. I do got two more commitments today. Appreciate everybody making the drive out. And God bless.

You're not done! You said an hour! You're not spending an hour! You're not spending an hour!

'Get some Republicans have claimed that Democrats or outside agitators are packing these events, but regardless. Things have gotten so bad that the chair of the House GOP campaign arm told lawmakers to go virtual and stop holding in-person town halls all. And there are some signs that the backlash is reaching the white House. President Donald Trump held a cabinet meeting on Thursday with Musk and heads of government departments, where he says he made clear that while he supports Musk's efforts, those agency heads would have final say in staffing decisions, at least up to a point.

And we want them to keep the good people. And so we're going to be watching them and Elon and the group, we're going to be watching them. And if they can cut, it's better. And if they don't cut, then Elon will do the cutting.

We also saw disruptions on a much larger scale. This week.

Small business optimism saw its single largest one month gain ever recorded a 41 point jump.

During Trump's address to Congress, Democrat Al Green from Texas stood up and shouted back at the president, even waving his cane in the air.

Mr. Green, take your seat. Take your seat, sir. Take your seat.

Green was eventually kicked out of the chamber, but there were other acts of protest that night, too. Some Democratic members walked out during the speech wearing t shirts that said resist. Others held up small signs that said false or saved Medicaid. And as Trump walked in, one congresswoman stood behind him with a piece of paper that said, this is not normal. Now, Democratic leadership had warned members ahead of time not to cause any disruptions. And in fact, ten Democrats even joined Republicans on a vote to officially censure Al Green for his outburst. Now, Republicans control all three branches of government, so Democrats options to push back through formal channels are limited. But all the same, it's left some voters asking, is this the best you can do? My guest is Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi. He represents Illinois's eighth congressional district and serves on the House Oversight Committee. Today, he tells me if he thinks his party is meeting the moment from CNN. This is one thing. I'm David Rind.

Hello? Can you hear me?

Yeah, I got you loud and clear. How are you?

Good. How are you doing?

Good. Good. Hang in there. Thanks for being here.

Great to be with you, David. Thank you.

So I want to start with this government funding negotiation. The government could shut down if there's not a deal reached by Friday the 14th. How confident are you as we record this here on March 6th, that there will be a deal?

I'm not confident. I just don't know what exactly is going to happen. It's it feels like total chaos on the other side at this point, starting with the white House. But even working down into the Republican conference, apparently our negotiators haven't even heard back from the other side in days. With regard to what is their plan? What is their proposed way of funding the government? Usually they don't even have the votes on their side to fund the government. It's their responsibility to do so. And if they are unable to muster a majority, I think they'll come to us for a rescue. But I think that at that point there will be conditions, because quite frankly, my constituents and numerous people are very unhappy with what they're seeing right now in government, right?

They would need your votes in that case to kind of get this over the line. But I guess in this moment where there's been so much upheaval in the federal government caused by Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency or Doge, you know, mass layoffs, directives, just general uncertainty. Would you be willing to let the government shut down and perhaps prolong some of that pain, some of that frustration for folks in the government?

Well, I think the problem is that he's causing pain and shutting things down anyway right now, regardless of the will of the people. In fact, I think that, for instance, today he announced that he's going to abolish the Department of Education. Are you freaking kidding me? This is through an executive order. This is the kind of nonsense that we're seeing coming out of the white House. So any kind of deal that you agree to in terms of funding, the government appears to be subject to the whims of the executive branch at this point. So in light of that, I think that if we are called upon to supply our votes, then there have to be some certain conditions associated with those votes.

What would those conditions be?

Well, I think that we can't have a situation where we appropriate money for, let's just say, the Department of Education. And then he decides, oh, well, you know what? I'm going to cancel those appropriations. I'm going to impound that money and not spend it on education or the purposes for which it's been appropriated. Another great example of Medicaid. Right now, we know that Medicaid is on the chopping block. By the way, that was one word that was not mentioned in the 100 minutes, the record long speech that President Trump gave the other night for the state of the Union. He did not say the word Medicaid. And there's a reason, because it is on the chopping block, even though it affects tens of millions of Americans. And again, that is a program that we will not tolerate being gutted as he tries to fund tax cuts for billionaires and wealthy special interests.

We got to take a quick break, but I'll have more with Congressman Krishnamoorthi in just a bit. I do want to ask about President Trump's congressional address the other night that you mentioned, because House leadership warned members not to disrupt the speech on Tuesday, but some went and did it anyway. There were little signs and disruptions. Congressman Al Green was actually kicked out of the chamber. And we heard Senator John Fetterman say that those kind of actions just make Trump look more presidential. Do you agree with that?

Well, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that Donald Trump could have looked more presidential that day, aside from him completely changing his speech and going a different tack than he did. He just he he did not look presidential that night. That being said, I don't think that we should engage in any kinds of antics or anything that might distract attention from the very real pain that people are feeling right now. The uncertainty, the fact that my small business people who are contacting me are frantic about this tariff situation because they don't know how much their inputs are going to cost, and as a consequence, their pricing is out of whack and they're losing business and investments aren't being made because of the uncertainty. So those are the types of things that we should kind of focus on. The main character, so to speak, are the American people, and we want to do everything we can to shine a light on, on their challenges, what they're going through, and not distract attention from that.

I guess I'm wondering if you think that your party is is meeting the moment. You know, I've seen a lot of discourse about that. You know, just the general response to the Trump administration is either been weak or just kind of all over the place. And now everybody's on the same page. Do you feel like Democrats are an effective opposition party right now?

I think we're getting there. I think we have to do four things. First, we have to continue to shine a light on the worst excesses of what's happening and kind of speak up and speak out at the appropriate times. I think we did a good job with regard to the federal funding freeze, both inside and outside Congress, making sure people understood the consequences. And I think that that's in part why the Trump administration rescinded that memo calling for the freeze. The second thing we have to do is we have to continue to pursue litigation, both inside and outside Congress, and coordinate with states attorneys general and not for profits. I think that that litigation is very important in guarding people's rights. Third, we have to use our votes. We have important votes coming up as we. You and I just discussed. And that will provide some leverage for us to get what we want. And then fourth, we have to hold people accountable who are thinking about voting the wrong way or might vote the wrong way on the other side. There are numerous Republicans in swing districts and marginal districts that need to think very hard, long and hard about whether they're going to both countenance what they're seeing right now with Doge and the chaos that it's creating. And at the same time, talking about gutting Medicaid and other social safety net programs to fund tax cuts for, you know, billionaires, oligarchs and roller guards.

Well, so you said that the main character of the moment, so to speak, is, is the American people. So for the average Democratic voter who is looking for cues from your party as to what to actually do in this moment when your party doesn't control anything in Washington, what would you say to that?

'Well, there are different types of constituents, different types of voters. There are people who are actually going through pain right now because they're, you know, not for profits. They're employers. They themselves are being hurt by what's happening. And for them, I think they should come to people like me, because we need to kind of do everything we can to help them on a practical basis, on an everyday basis. And I can get into more details about that. But there are a number of groups that need help in the moment. Then there are other people who may not feel the pain right now of what is happening, but they nonetheless are very, very concerned about the direction of the country, whether it's those issues that I talked about before or whether it's the disgraceful way with which Vladimir Zelensky was treated in the Oval Office, and they are concerned about whether we're we're basically selling out our friends, partners and allies around the world in favor of communist dictatorships. I think that they too, in many cases, are opinion leaders, and they should also speak up. And then finally, the third thing that I think that Democrats need to do, which is extremely important, is don't give up. Don't live in fear as well. There are some Democrats and and and citizens who fear retribution from Trump, who fear that somehow by speaking up, taking action, Doing what their conscience is telling them to do. That they are going to be the target of retribution, and therefore they should not act in the first place. And all I can say is, please don't give in to that. Because if you do that, then the other side wins and and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You need to act. You can either be paralyzed in inaction, or you take that concern that each of us feels viscerally, and you transform it into action. Please act.

Yeah. And that's what I'm I'm trying to get at is like, what? What is the the action like I get not giving in to the process of fear or anything like that. But we hear from voters who have not felt served by either Republicans or Democrats. You know, maybe they begrudgingly voted for Harris in November because they couldn't stomach voting for Trump, but might look at this moment and say, oh yeah, like, forget the Democrats. This is not what I need. That even in this moment where the federal government is crumbling all around us, in their view, like this is the best they can do to say, don't give up. Like, what would be your response?

'I'll give you a couple examples. I know certain people who are big supporters of LGBTQ rights, as well as the ACLU and other organizations that are trying to stand up for kind of marginalized communities this moment. They fear that if they were to donate, or if they were to do anything in support of those organizations, that they themselves would somehow get targeted. In my opinion, that is something that they should not give in to that fear, because there are people out there that are feeling pain and your support, whether it's dollars or whether it's you're showing up and and giving your time or doing your pro-bono activities are lawyers who are in this boat, by the way. Is is the difference between, you know, these folks who are marginalized, who are targeted and who are vulnerable, getting vital assistance in the moment and potentially a way to kind of live another fight and live another day, or being further targeted and, and, and not getting the desperate assistance they need. And so what I would say is don't give in to that kind of compunction to kind of get disengaged. So that's one very concrete example. Another is I think that it's very important that we step up right now and we hold people accountable on the other side. So as an example, some of these folks have done town halls recently. They do tele town halls. They do in-person town halls. And, you know, these are the times when people should engage. If you don't like what you're seeing, you need to show up. You need to speak out. You need to pick up the phone and get on that tele town hall. And if they're not going to do the town hall, you go to their office or you contact them in other ways.

So you're encouraging, you know, Democrats to kind of tune into these Republican tele town halls, you're saying, and make their voices heard.

They're 100%. You know why? Because a lot of these districts, these marginal districts have tons of Democrats in them. And some of these Democrats even voted for these Republicans in certain cases. And so, yes, please do so. Please tune in and make your voices heard.

Can I just go back real quick to what you said about the marginalized groups, LGBTQ people who might be feeling fear in this moment to donate to causes or just speak out for fear of retribution. Because I guess, how do you square that when you see someone like California Governor Gavin Newsom, one of the most prominent voices in this party.

Something like that. Would you say no men in female sports? Well, I think it's an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that.

'He just launched a podcast and his first guest was Charlie Kirk, the conservative firebrand. And in this episode, Newsom was talking about the issue of transgender women participating in women's sports. And, you know, he did express sympathy for transgender people, saying they have higher rates of suicide and depression, but said when it comes to sports specifically, he sees it as an issue of fairness. And he agreed with Kirk, who we should say is famously anti-trans, that it's an unfair thing, and said the party was getting, quote, crushed on the issue.

So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we address this issue with the kind of decency that I think, you know is inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue? No, I get it. At the same time, deal with the. So you're asking.

Now, notably, he didn't address the inherent Unfairness of trans people being excluded just for who they are. So how do you square those two things when you have marginalized folks looking for leadership and that leadership not being quite on the level where they are?

Well, like when I talk to my transgender friends or others who have discussed this issue with me, they get it. They're not dumb. Basically what they're saying is, look, don't ban us from these sports, which is what the Republicans have effectively done through certain executive orders. Don't ban transgender women from being able to participate, but there might be other ways of dealing with the the actual sport, the competition itself, the biology of what's happening with the transgender individual at the time that they're competing. There's just a lot that can be done that's in a nuanced fashion. That doesn't go to a ban, because a ban is about, you know, basically declaring someone forbidden from participating in a life activity that's really important for their for for their mental health and for their wellbeing. And so we can deal with these things in the right way if we talk about them in the right way. At the end of the day, David, it's about inclusion. I think that is a powerful kind of American value, which is we want everyone to be accepted. We want everyone to be involved and included in the way in which they are. The way in which we handle the situations might differ depending on the situation. But hate is never an acceptable strategy. Discrimination and prejudice are never acceptable in America or should not be. David, I really got to go. I'm sorry. We have votes coming here.

Understood. Thanks so much for the time. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

One thing is a production of CNN audio. This episode was produced by Paola Ortiz and meet David Rind. Our senior producers are Felicia Patinkin and Faiz Jamil. Matt Dempsey is our production manager. Dan Dzula is our technical director. And Steve Lickteig, is the executive producer of CNN audio. We get support from Haley Thomas, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, Jon Dianora, Leni Steinhart, Jamus Andrest, Nichole Passaro, and Lisa Namerow. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage. As always, make sure you're following the show wherever you listen. That way, it'll pop right into your feed whenever we post, which is Sunday and Wednesday. I'll talk to you then.